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is Cobra for me or quest for perfect language

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Re: is Cobra for me or quest for perfect language

Postby hopscc » Tue May 28, 2013 3:58 am

GUI:
Generally theres no good answer for all platforms for any language - only less bad ones.
Java backend will give you access to Swing and AWT ( or SWT) if you want to go that way. That will work on all the platforms java runs on
Cobra will insulate you from some of the kruft that java forces on you
- unfortunately the cobra Java-backend support is still under construction :) so youll find a different sort of kruft.

Use of any other toolkit is tied to its .Net/Mono support/bindings - some are OK and actively developed, others are quiescent or dead...
Cobra can consume/expose/use untouched any .Net/mono dll so the trick is finding a C#/.Net binding you like and can work with..
( gtk.net, wx.net, Qt.net(?), System.Windows , ..)

I did some work on cobra and wx.net binding a long while ago. I seem to remember it works but the binding is a little strange in that it
doesnt follow the usual .Net conventions which can cause some issues - theres a wiki page on the cobra website about this...
I vaguely recollect that the binding was quite old and maybe not being strongly developed but I could be remembering this wrong and its likely to have changed anyway..

GTK binding seems as good as any and it runs on all of Windows/Mac/Linux

For me if I need GUI I use .Net/Mono (mainly .Net) tho' I believe the mono libs are lagging the .Net ones ( GUI) ....
but I dont do much GUI stuff and I havent done any cross platform for a while.


IDE:
Yeah everyone has a favorite IDE and it doesnt support cobra - go figure
- the work on monodevelop looks most promising and I'll look at it Real Soon Now..
In the interim cobra is clean and simple enough that you can go a very long way with a simple editor and the cobra compiler.

Ditto build system - the one built into the compiler seems to be adequate for most small-medium size projects purposes.
Where thats insufficient for whatever reason theres no shortage of language agnostic stand alone build tools
I'd look at scons if I needed one - Its pythonesque (and based) and should be a good fit to cobra but YAGNI.

Cobra is just the compiler and RTL (backed with .Net/Mono and (lesser) Java. Theres no 3rd party Clibs and bindings nd no need of them.
Doc generation is pending ( or unformed depending on your POV) - theres a subsystem to find and extract API docs from source but no built in markup tools or favored protocol.

Installation is a file bundle and install script - ( or a repository pull followed by a build and install)
not very platform specific but easily portable and low overhead.
Packaging up a platform package is a matter of someone choosing to do it and support it - for each and every specific platform
Distribution would be posting the package back to the website for download.
It would be nice to have but theres more interesting things to do.... Later maybe

Language alternatives:
Yeah theres lots of choices: Ada, Nimrod, PyQt_CPython, also Groovy, Boo, Gosu, Kotlin/Stab, Genie, Ceylon, Go, Obix, TypeScript, and more....
Some have some of what cobra has, some have other stuff, most of them have their own silliness and weirdnesses
none seem to put it together as clearly, easily and cleanly as cobra - or it may be just me - YMMV, try it and see...

( the wiki has pages with a comparison to Python and Ruby ( and C#) )
hopscc
 
Posts: 631
Location: New Plymouth, Taranaki, New Zealand

Re: is Cobra for me or quest for perfect language

Postby nerdzero » Tue May 28, 2013 4:09 am

gourD wrote:I noticed that monodoc is still the old one?

I've never used monodoc but the Mono 3.0 and MonoDevelop 4.0 packages are still pretty new so other packages maybe are still lagging behind. Right now, I'm running from source builds on Ubuntu which was a pain to get working.

As for xbuild, there's a wiki page with some more information about using it with Cobra here: http://cobra-language.com/trac/cobra/wiki/MsxBuild

Ideally, the MonoDevelop addin would create a *.cobraproj file that is suitable for use with xbuild from the command line but this is not implemented yet. It's on the addin's todo list but is low priority for me right now as you can build projects from within MonoDevelop and add custom commands for running tests after successful compilation if desired. I'm currently working on adding support for tooltips and a source analysis library to improve code completion.
nerdzero
 
Posts: 286
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: is Cobra for me or quest for perfect language

Postby gourD » Tue May 28, 2013 4:59 am

hopscc wrote:Java backend will give you access to Swing and AWT ( or SWT) if you want to go that way.


Not at all. It is one of the reasons why I've eliminated all JVM-based languages. :)

GTK binding seems as good as any and it runs on all of Windows/Mac/Linux


Based on what I see, although it may seem contrary to my original post, it looks as GTK will be good-enough especially after I read a bit about XWT which mighr become the future. 8-)

the work on monodevelop looks most promising and I'll look at it Real Soon Now..


So far, I'm pleased with it, although haven't figure out how to launch GUI designer.

Ditto build system - the one built into the compiler seems to be adequate for most small-medium size projects purposes.


I cannot say that my project would exceed the 'medium-size', but I believe it won't be overly complex.

I'd look at scons if I needed one - Its pythonesque (and based) and should be a good fit to cobra but YAGNI.

Heh, I'm following both scons-{dev, users} lists. :)

Cobra is just the compiler and RTL (backed with .Net/Mono and (lesser) Java. Theres no 3rd party Clibs and bindings nd no need of them.


That I understand, but besides Objective Sharpie, didn't find any tool to help create C# bindings by parsing C *.h files?

Yeah theres lots of choices: Ada, Nimrod, PyQt_CPython, also Groovy, Boo, Gosu, Kotlin/Stab, Genie, Ceylon, Go, Obix, TypeScript, and more....


Thank you for the list...some new names did emerge to cure my curiosity. :mrgreen:

Some have some of what cobra has, some have other stuff, most of them have their own silliness and weirdnesses
none seem to put it together as clearly, easily and cleanly as cobra - or it may be just me - YMMV, try it and see...


Believe it or not, but I quickly dismissed all the new candidate and now you can consider me as new Cobra user and we can close this thread. :lol:

I hope you're neither :shock: nor :o and will ask about other things in separate topics.

( the wiki has pages with a comparison to Python and Ruby ( and C#) )


I read comparison with the Python, but not the others.

Considering that I already thought about C# in the past, but was relucant to embrace it due to too much syntax-noise, Cobra looks as sent from the higher abode. ;)
gourD
 
Posts: 40
Location: Hlapičina (Croatia)

Re: is Cobra for me or quest for perfect language

Postby gourD » Tue May 28, 2013 5:10 am

nerdzero wrote:As for xbuild, there's a wiki page with some more information about using it with Cobra here: http://cobra-language.com/trac/cobra/wiki/MsxBuild


It's not very extensive, but it is, at least, something. Thank you.

Ideally, the MonoDevelop addin would create a *.cobraproj file that is suitable for use with xbuild from the command line but this is not implemented yet. It's on the addin's todo list but is low priority for me right now as you can build projects from within MonoDevelop and add custom commands for running tests after successful compilation if desired. I'm currently working on adding support for tooltips and a source analysis library to improve code completion.


That would be great and let me just say: +1 ;)
gourD
 
Posts: 40
Location: Hlapičina (Croatia)

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