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Programming in Cobra

General discussion about Cobra. Releases and general news will also be posted here.
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Re: Programming in Cobra

Postby gourD » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:32 pm

hopscc wrote:I went to the bitbucket link you gave.


Thank you for taking time. ;)

Which drops me in a login screen so first barrier is that you have to login before you can even see much less do anything,
fortunately I have a bitbucket login or I would have stopped there


You would expect that Bitbucket makes is open for every casual visitor to just jump in and do whatever he likes?

so I guess I have to get specific permission to see it in all its wonder.


To see or to edit?

Otoh, it's no wonder, just a single .rst page.

username is 'hops'


Thank you, I've added you 'write' perm.
gourD
 
Posts: 40
Location: Hlapičina (Croatia)

Re: Programming in Cobra

Postby gourD » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:31 pm

hopscc wrote:YAGNI


Sure, with the present workflow when one just creates another page. :D

I'd expect once written the doc would be pretty static (as content - we're not tweaking existing cobra bits much where re-doc is needed)
so any changes would be to wording or structure.
(Alternatively we are so far behind devt with the doc that we're working against a void of doc rather than outdated or incorrect doc :) )


Isn't this contradictory? No need to change and requirement for lot of docs? ;)

I guess its not incomprehensible to me and changing to something else has no appreciable/discernable benefit I need..


I apologize if someone might feel offended, and I have feeling it is, but this was lapsus linugue - I wanted to say 'incoherent' instead of 'incomphrehensible'. :cry:
gourD
 
Posts: 40
Location: Hlapičina (Croatia)

Re: Programming in Cobra

Postby hopscc » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:49 am

No need to change and requirement for lot of docs


No need to change(edit) once created/written and requirement for lot of docs.
Indicates missing areas of raw doc (fodder).

'incoherent' also works equally accurately in my previous reply :)
hopscc
 
Posts: 631
Location: New Plymouth, Taranaki, New Zealand

Re: Programming in Cobra

Postby hopscc » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:54 am

You would expect that Bitbucket makes is open for every casual visitor to just jump in and do whatever he likes?

Nope but I do expect anonymous access to view (read-only) - but they cant monetize or tag+track you as easily with that....
hopscc
 
Posts: 631
Location: New Plymouth, Taranaki, New Zealand

Re: Programming in Cobra

Postby hopscc » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:30 am

OK - did a quick spot of editing on the bitbucket converted-to-reSt page.

So bitbucket-wiki has the same capabilities as trac but with a different (pickier) markup - more markup choices though.
More restrictive to entry (login), less online (markup) help
Different theme ( fonts/colors/highlights/appearance), same edit in box, same/similar history recording, same preview capability,
can do links and link/page creation but its on a different/separate site...

No immediate in-my-face obvious major advantages over what I have now with Trac, similar capability,
some surmountable non benefits ( different ....).

Presumably it needs some support infrastructure added - imposed structure/Templates/....

Remind me what I/we're gaining from this again?
hopscc
 
Posts: 631
Location: New Plymouth, Taranaki, New Zealand

Re: Programming in Cobra

Postby gourD » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:53 am

hopscc wrote:'incoherent' also works equally accurately in my previous reply :)


OK, it works for you, but maybe not for others. ;)
gourD
 
Posts: 40
Location: Hlapičina (Croatia)

Re: Programming in Cobra

Postby gourD » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:55 am

hopscc wrote:Nope but I do expect anonymous access to view (read-only) - but they cant monetize or tag+track you as easily with that....


It's certainly my ommission 'cause I made the project as private initiallly and when moving it to public, forgot to change settings for wiki as well.

However, it's strange that you as BB user do not know or assume that wikis are private-only?
gourD
 
Posts: 40
Location: Hlapičina (Croatia)

Re: Programming in Cobra

Postby gourD » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:07 am

hopscc wrote:OK - did a quick spot of editing on the bitbucket converted-to-reSt page.


Thank you for trying it out.

So bitbucket-wiki has the same capabilities as trac but with a different (pickier) markup - more markup choices though.


I'd say that for open-source projects, markdown/reST are much more common choices, especially the latter alongwith PShinx since allows to generate whole manuals in different formats (HTML - including Windows HTML Help, LaTeX - for printable PDF versions, Texinfo, manual pages, plain text and straight to PDF via rst2pdf).

[qote]More restrictive to entry (login)[/quote]

That's true - see above. ;)

less online (markup) help


I expect that serious documentation contributor knows tools (aka markup). Just imagine web developer not being familiar with HTML/CSS markup. :lol:

Different theme ( fonts/colors/highlights/appearance), same edit in box, same/similar history recording, same preview capability,
can do links and link/page creation but its on a different/separate site...


Sure, different site in order to have less admin work to keep the whole infratructure running.

No immediate in-my-face obvious major advantages over what I have now with Trac, similar capability,


That is one of the problem with Cobra...my suggestions (using external VCS, mailing list, documentation...) are pretty common for majority of open-source projects, but you're quite reluctant to embrace any change being focused in your own focus considering what works for you.

So, it seems that Cobra is destined to stay niche language with just few contributors, dozen users and bunch forum posters. :cry:

Remind me what I/we're gaining from this again?


Probably I won't bother any longer. :roll:
gourD
 
Posts: 40
Location: Hlapičina (Croatia)

Re: Programming in Cobra

Postby hopscc » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:36 am

"That is one of the problem with Cobra...my suggestions (using external VCS, mailing list, documentation...) are pretty common for majority of open-source projects, but you're quite reluctant to embrace any change being focused in your own focus considering what works for you"

? - yes and the problem with that is ???....
Why should I/we jump/change what works fine to date for no obvious immediate benefit, on your bare assertion that use of other things is better, for some asserted value of better, and is ' pretty common for majority of open-source projects' and that you suggest/reccommend it be done ??

I've been waiting for you to make your case for, or show experimentally or both, why/how changing to all the things you suggest will bring some new better added benefit - I'm still waiting..

Also for some idea of the new doc structure you originally started with...

"So, it seems that Cobra is destined to stay niche language with just few contributors, dozen users and bunch forum posters."
Ahh - so changing to your best new thing will change all that ?? I'll take unicorns, lace and rainbows with that as well :)

"Probably I won't bother any longer"
Thats a shame - I was wondering what structure/doc (or whatever else) you would come up with.

Hell if it was me and I felt that strongly about it I'd generate a new doc layout/content using the tooling/process you desire and feed it back to the project just to show how much better it was...
but we all gotta do what we gotta do...
hopscc
 
Posts: 631
Location: New Plymouth, Taranaki, New Zealand

Re: Programming in Cobra

Postby Charles » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:50 pm

I agree with hopscc's comments above.

But if you want to start "The Cobra Book" project for the purpose of creating a traditional book for Cobra then go for it. Feel free to use bitbucket or github, sphinx or something else, whatever you want. If it turns into something, I'll be happy to include the current snapshot of it with each Cobra release.
Charles
 
Posts: 2510
Location: Los Angeles, CA

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